Get that. He concludes by stating that he thinks the speech is long enough, and the listener is welcome to ask any questions if something has been left out. That makes the subtle little ways that Socrates pulls out the rug from under you all the more delicious.e, The madness of love is the greatest of heaven's blessings., ? For your specific itinerary, they have this one: https://www.amazon.com/Plato-Dialogues-Euthyphro-Apology-Classics/dp/0872206335. When persuing my undergraduate degree in philosophy 30+ years ago, I read most of the dialogues and found them uninspiring, indeed, some like The Parminedes I found to be incomprehensible. Future generations will hear much without being properly taught, and will appear wise but not be so, making them difficult to get along with. Includes initial monthly payment and selected options. 
Lysias was one of the three sons of Cephalus, the patriarch whose home is the setting for Plato's Republic. The text can also be read and searched online (using the Ctrl+F function on a computer) if you choose to read in HTML format. This version is the one I would use and recommend. Phaedrus is Plato's only dialogue that shows Socrates outside the city of Athens, out in the country. As long as you get reasonably modern editions put out by reputable publishers you will be just fine; they tend to be translated by experts and usually come with notes, commentary, and some form of glossary detailing how key terms have been translated. [1] Thomas S. Frentz, in his article Memory, Myth, and Rhetoric in Platos Phaedrus (2006), claims that Plato suggests a conversational form of rhetoric as living myth in the Phaedrus that leads readers of the dialogue to self-knowledge of the soul. This is the best form that possession by a god can take, for all those connected to it. They ignore human concerns and are drawn towards the divine. Customer Reviews, including Product Star Ratings help customers to learn more about the product and decide whether it is the right product for them. The Internet Classics Archive. Reviewed in the United States on April 15, 2011. . [Note 25], What is outside of heaven, says Socrates, is quite difficult to describe, lacking color, shape, or solidity, as it is the subject of all true knowledge, visible only to intelligence. [Note 11] The boy's intellectual progress will be stifled, his physical condition will suffer,[Note 12] the lover will not wish the boy to mature and take a family,[Note 13] all because the lover is shaping him out of desire for pleasure rather than what is best. Very interesting and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Socrates, stating that he is "sick with passion for hearing speeches",[Note 1] walks into the countryside with Phaedrus hoping that Phaedrus will repeat the speech. When they have seen all things and feasted on them, coming all the way around, they sink back down inside heaven. Plato : Phaedrus: A Translation With Notes, Glossary, Appendices, Interpretive Essay and Introduction (Focus Philosophical Library). [5] The view that life is self-motion and that the soul is a self-mover is used by Plato to guarantee the immortality of the soul, making this a novel argument for the soul's immortality not found in the Phaedo. I kept coming back to it. For the best experience on our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser. The dialogue consists of a series of three speeches on the topic of love that serves as the subject to construct a discussion on the proper use of rhetoric. With that in mind, I'm not really sure where your explicit demand for accuracy comes from. Of such editions, Hackett Classics holds what is arguably one of the most pure. 1888. Bodily objects moved from the outside have no soul, while those that move from within have a soul. [Note 52] The one who knows uses the art of dialectic rather than writing: In the Phaedrus, Socrates makes the rather bold claim that some of life's greatest blessings flow from madness; and he clarifies this later by noting that he is referring specifically to madness inspired by the gods. js.src='https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js'; Moreover, one must have an idea of what is good or bad for the soul and, as a result, know what the soul should be persuaded towards. It includes an introduction, notes, glossary, appendices, and an interpretive essay and introduction. They encompass discussions of the soul, madness, divine inspiration, and the practice and mastery of an art. An appendix containing fragments of early Greek love poetry helps the reader appreciate the rich, and perhaps elusive, meaning of eros. After Theuth remarks on his discovery of writing as a remedy for the memory, Thamus responds that its true effects are likely to be the opposite; it is a remedy for reminding, not remembering, he says, with the appearance but not the reality of wisdom. Learn more. [Note 42] Socrates then goes on to say, Socrates's speech, on the other hand, starts with a thesis and proceeds to make divisions accordingly, finding divine love, and setting it out as the greatest of goods. js.id=id; Socrates then admits that he thought both of the preceding speeches were terrible, saying Lysias' repeated itself numerous times, seemed uninterested in its subject, and seemed to be showing off. The part I did not like was Phaedrus who gives meaning to the term yes man! [Note 30], When one is reminded of true beauty by the sight of a beautiful boy, he is called a lover. For the reader, his dialectical approach gives us a hint about how to resist it. This is a fine translation, both fluent and accurate. Our payment security system encrypts your information during transmission. The Online Library of Liberty. : The love speeches become types of rhetoric that Socrates and Phaedrus then discuss to come to some conclusions about rhetoric. Plato. [Note 22] These wings lift up heavy things to where the gods dwell and are nourished and grow in the presence of the wisdom, goodness, and beauty of the divine. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/phaedrus.html, http://oll.libertyfund.org/index.php?option=com_staticxt&staticfile=show.php&title=111, http://data.perseus.org/citations/urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0059.tlg012.perseus-eng1:227a, https://archive.org/details/PHAEDRUS-LYSIS-PROTAGORAS-WRIGHT. Any soul that catches sight of any true thing is granted another circuit where it can see more; eventually, all souls fall back to earth. The translation is faithful in the very best sense: it reflects both the meaning and the beauty of the Greek text. It is highly civilised how Socrates and Phaedrus conversed. Download the free Kindle app and start reading Kindle books instantly on your smartphone, tablet, or computer - no Kindle device required. Curious about what the great Socrates may have said about Love? Soul-Leading: The Unity of the, This page was last edited on 17 July 2022, at 00:06. It seems proper to recall that Plato's ever-present protagonist and ideal man, Socrates, fits Plato's description of the dialectician perfectly, and never wrote a thing. The Phaedrus also gives us much in the way of explaining how art should be practiced. Ahead of its time maybe. Saying that while Lysias is present, he would never allow himself to be used as a training partner for Phaedrus to practice his own speech-making on, he asks Phaedrus to expose what he is holding under his cloak. Project Gutenberg. , Language Remarking that he is in the grip of something divine, and may soon be overtaken by the madness of the nymphs in this place,[Note 10] he goes on. All the Oxford World Classics editions I have come with an introduction, some notes clarifying references that wouldn't mean anything to a beginner, and some notes on the key terms in the original language. Eros, much like in the Symposium, is contrasted from mere desire of the pleasurable and given a higher, heavenly function. After showing that speech making itself isn't something reproachful, and that what is truly shameful is to engage in speaking or writing shamefully or badly, Socrates asks what distinguishes good from bad writing, and they take this up. Help others learn more about this product by uploading a video! A hungry animal can be driven by dangling a carrot or a bit of greenstuff in front of it; similarly if you proffer me speeches bound in books (en bibliois) I don't doubt you can cart me all around Attica, and anywhere else you please. It has all the dialogues you want to read minus the republic, but also the meno and phaedo. Socrates runs into Phaedrus on the outskirts of Athens. [Note 20], Then begins the famous chariot allegory. [Note 23], In heaven, he explains, there is a procession led by Zeus, who looks after everything and puts things in order. : I actually own it, and this might be just with the nature of the dialogue, but I find it difficult and confusing to read. You will not be giving your favor to someone who is "more sick than sound in the head" and is not thinking straight, overcome by love. Cooper (Stuart Professor of Philosophy, Princeton University c.1997), D. S. Hutchinson -, Moss, Jessica. . Unlike in the Ion, a dialogue dealing with madness and divine inspiration in poetry and literary criticism, madness here must go firmly hand in hand with reason, learning, and self-control in both love and art. You're listening to a sample of the Audible audio edition. His purpose is to interpret both Isocratess and Platos in order to analyze both philosophers conceptions of what the philosopher is and should do. This newer translation by H.N. . [Note 26] The gods delight in these things and are nourished. The Oral Fixation: The Oral/Textual Binary from Phaedrus to Freshman Composition. Rhetoric Review 26.4 (2007): 349-64. : And yet, this is tempered in various ways; role reversals between lover and beloved are constant, as they are in the Symposium. Does anyone have experience reading those translations? The desire to take pleasure in beauty, reinforced by the kindred beauty in human bodies, is called Eros. Beginning with "You understand, then, my situation: I've told you how good it would be for us in my opinion, if this worked out",[Note 3] the speech proceeds to explain all the reasons why it is better to give your favor to a non-lover rather than a true lover. Please try again. Those that have been initiated are put into varying human incarnations, depending on how much they have seen; those made into philosophers have seen the most, while kings, statesmen, doctors, prophets, poets, manual laborers, sophists, and tyrants follow respectively. [Note 7], Socrates, rather than simply listing reasons as Lysias had done, begins by explaining that while all men desire beauty, some are in love and some are not. This is the fourth sort of madness, that of love. Click HERE for more information. Oxford, 1892. Ed. McAdon, Brad. Lysias was perhaps the most famous logographos (, lit. Phaedrus warns him that he is younger and stronger, and Socrates should "take his meaning" and "stop playing hard to get". It's also a case study in rhetoric. Bring your club to Amazon Book Clubs, start a new book club and invite your friends to join, or find a club thats right for you for free. Top subscription boxes right to your door, 1996-2022, Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates, Eligible for Return, Refund or Replacement within 30 days of receipt, Learn more how customers reviews work on Amazon. Unfortunately, it is a terrible performanceit sounds like someone fed the text into a computer reader. [Note 46] One who knows how to compose the longest passages on trivial topics or the briefest passages on topics of great importance is similar, when he claims that to teach this is to impart the knowledge of composing tragedies; if one were to claim to have mastered harmony after learning the lowest and highest notes on the lyre, a musician would say that this knowledge is what one must learn before one masters harmony, but it is not the knowledge of harmony itself. This relationship brings guidance and love into the boys life. Print. Trans. Daniel C. Stevenson. [Note 33], The lover now pursues the boy. [Note 48], They go on to discuss what is good or bad in writing. One of Platos great works, Phaedrus is one of the dialogues written to help better explain the philosophers thoughts. . Phaedrus then commences to repeat Lysias' speech. . . Please try your request again later. The translation is faithful in the very best sense: it reflects both the meaning and the beauty of the Greek text. He explains that it is best to give your favor to one who can best return it, rather than one who needs it most. Some thoughts herein are eternal. We dont share your credit card details with third-party sellers, and we dont sell your information to others. Reviewed in the United States on May 30, 2017. eBook available for $9.50. The charioteer is filled with warmth and desire as he gazes into the eyes of the one he loves. Shipping cost, delivery date, and order total (including tax) shown at checkout. Please try again. I'm guessing that that might be the influence of my particular professor, but I'm not sure. There was a problem loading your book clubs. Clicking on a Greek work will bring up a translation and references to other places it appears in the text. Trans. [Note 47] This, then, is what must be said to those who attempt to teach the art of rhetoric through "Preambles" and "Recapitulations"; they are ignorant of dialectic, and teach only what is necessary to learn as preliminaries. . Those that can remember are startled when they see a reminder, and are overcome with the memory of beauty. McAndon establishes a scholarly relationship with his academic audience who would be familiar with the historiography of rhetoric, or at least the figures and principles of Plato and his contemporaries. [3] Mark Noe, in his article The Oral Fixation: The Oral/Textual Binary from Phaedrus to Freshman Composition (2007), asserts that process-driven pedagogies in freshman composition silence the student writer. Phaedrus. Also he covers what he terms the sciences (unfortunately his idea of science is mostly that of Rhetoric) and some other taunting between Socrates and Phaedrus. Previously considered a lesser work by Plato, but more recently considered important because of Derrida. A very interesting read. Phaedrus makes several excuses, but Socrates suspects strongly that Phaedrus has a copy of the speech with him. MIT hosts another online copy of Jowetts translation and offers a text-only downloadable version that is easier to print or copy-and-paste than Project Gutenbergs version. Socrates tells a brief legend, critically commenting on the gift of writing from the Egyptian god Theuth to King Thamus, who was to disperse Theuth's gifts to the people of Egypt. Socrates states that he is a "seer". London, 1925. . There was an error retrieving your Wish Lists. Print.[2]. The problem, he explains, is that one overcome with this desire will want to turn his boy into whatever is most pleasing to himself, rather than what is best for the boy. Yet Socrates does not dismiss the art of speechmaking. : , Paperback Persuasive Political Leadership: How to Change the World With Your Words (Speak for An Essay on Reason and Perception (Philosophy, Logic, Science, Law), Five Dialogues: Euthyphro, Apology, Crito, Meno, Phaedo. Guess what! The dialogue offers valuable, time-tested insight and guidance in the life of the mind and itself embodies the insight. It's the one where Socrates takes the fatal poison. I was more interested in how the dialogue flows, however not to say the least of the content. this is an excellent book that deservedly should find wide circulation for many years to come." There is an echo of this point of view in Plato's Seventh Epistle (Letter), wherein Plato says not to write down things of importance. Finally available, Phaedrus by Plato, on a freshly published and beautifully edited paperback ed. Plato. Socrates, attempting to flatter Phaedrus, responds that he is in ecstasy and that it is all Phaedrus' doing. I also liked the dangers of the written word and reliance on it without analysis by the majority of people. Welcome back. // His dialogues are among the works that had reread for centuriesnever aged. Notably, Socrates sees the pederastic relationship as ideally devoid of sexual consummation; rather than being used for sexual pleasure, the relationship is a form of divine madness, helping both lover and beloved to grow and reach the divine. Benjamin Jowett. : If madness is all bad, then the preceding speeches would have been correct, but in actuality, madness given as a gift of the gods provides us with some of the best things we have. Do not get the collected version edited by Edith Hamilton. [Note 32], Socrates then returns to the myth of the chariot. His exploration of the relationship between love and beauty is very interesting. "Soul-Leading: The Unity of the, Blyth, Dougal. Published This is a short dialogue and I read it quickly. Socrates, ostensibly the lover, exhorts Phaedrus to lead the way at various times, and the dialogue ends with Socrates and Phaedrus leaving as "friends"equals, rather than partaking in the lover/beloved relationship inherent in Greek pederasty. 27 Jan. 2014. . Web. The introduction is crisp and clear, the interpretive essay illuminatingScully has done a sound and serious job of translating and annotating for the general reader. A soul, says Socrates, is like the "natural union of a team of winged horses and their charioteer". They see some things and miss others, having to deal with their horses; they rise and fall at varying times. So you would be able to think about the translation and compare with other editions further down the road, if that's your thing. Gregory Crane. In the beginning, they sit themselves under a chaste tree, which is precisely what its name suggestsoften known as "monk's pepper", it was used by monks to decrease sexual urges and is believed to be an antaphrodisiac. . Also included are rarely seen illustrations, stone carvings, and vase paintings. . Caught between these two feelings, the lover is in utmost anguish, with the boy the only doctor for the pain. Plato is trying I think to tell us question everything or take what we hear with a pinch of salt. 1997. The discussion of rhetoric, the proper practice of which is found to actually be philosophy, has many similarities with Socrates's role as a "midwife of the soul" in the Theaetetus; the dialectician, as described, is particularly resonant. 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J. Wright. Stephen Scullyis an Associate Professor of Classical Studies at Boston University. , Knowing that, context and further notation would be good with this book. As this occurs over and over, the bad horse eventually becomes obedient and finally dies of fright when seeing the boy's face, allowing the lover's soul to follow the boy in reverence and awe. fjs.parentNode.insertBefore(js,fjs); A one-page outline is useful since there are no editorial additions to mark major divisions in the dialogue. A one-page outline is useful since there are no editorial additions to mark major divisions in the dialogue. [Note 40]. Oxford, 1892. It generally takes 10,000 years for a soul to grow its wings and return to where it came, but philosophers, after having chosen such a life three times in a row, grow their wings and return after only 3,000 years. Print. Translations of course differ, but that's inevitable - especially when translating from such a dissimilar language as Greek. }}(document,'script','twitter-wjs'); Kastely, James L. Respecting the Rupture: Not Solving the Problem of Unity in Platos Phaedrus. Philosophy and Rhetoric 35:2 (2002): 138-52. As such, the philosopher uses writing "for the sake of amusing himself" and other similar things rather than for teaching others. If you have the chance, read it aloud with a friend using a second translation. 27 Jan. 2014. Initial Problem: Can a lover be a stable friend? It even delves into the nature of philosophy. [Note 29], One comes to manifest this sort of love after seeing beauty here on earth and being reminded of true beauty as it was seen beyond heaven. . Refresh and try again. The entire Introduction is crisply written, and the authors' erudition shines throughout, without a trace of pedantry. "at this point, then, his whole soul seethes and poundsin fact, the soul of someone who is beginning to grow wings experiences exactly the same sensations that children feel when they are teething, with their teeth just starting to grow, and they feel an itching and a soreness in their gums. --Tim Mahoney, University of Texas at Arlington. To acquire the art of rhetoric, then, one must make systematic divisions between two different kinds of things: one sort, like "iron" and "silver", suggests the same to all listeners; the other sort, such as "good" or "justice", lead people in different directions. His purpose in this is to expand critical perspectives to include spiritual frameworks of self-knowledge of the soul in order that this framework can be applied to other important rhetorical texts that have not yet considered such a framework. A soul is always in motion and as a self-mover has no beginning. Otherwise, the Hackett editions are the way to go. [Note 21], As souls are immortal, those lacking bodies patrol all of heaven so long as their wings are in perfect condition. The dialogue is given unmediated, in the direct words of Socrates and Phaedrus, without other interlocutors to introduce the story or give it to us; it comes first hand, as if we are witnessing the events themselves. I read this dialogue over several months. Also discussed are ethical topics, rhetoric, and even the ancient philosophers thoughts on reincarnation. Using your mobile phone camera - scan the code below and download the Kindle app. . Those translations are garbage. The dialogue, somewhat unusually, does not set itself as a re-telling of the day's events. , Dimensions The Ever-Moving Soul in Platos Phaedrus., Bett, Richard. Spoiler alert: This book is not about a "philosophy of love" as many reviewers seem to believe. A modern translation and commentary; what it misses in the depth achieved by earlier translation-commentaries it makes up for with clarity of thought and expression. Instead, our system considers things like how recent a review is and if the reviewer bought the item on Amazon. Im going to add some comments about the individual ones as I go through them and maybe something overall on them as a collection once Ive finished. After that I am planning to read The Republic. Sorry, there was a problem loading this page. It was believed that spirits and nymphs inhabited the country, and Socrates specifically points this out after the long palinode with his comment about listening to the cicadas. While all have seen reality, as they must have to be human, not all are so easily reminded of it. Frentz, Thomas S. Memory, Myth, and Rhetoric in Platos Phaedrus. Rhetoric Society Quarterly 36:3 (2006): 243-62. Because the boy has a lover as such a valuable role model, he is on his best behavior to not get caught in something shameful. Discover live virtual experiences for the family, Publisher OLL also offers a free accessible version of Phaedrus that is specifically designed for assistive devices for the visually impaired. If you're reading the apology, euthyphro, and crito, then you gotta read the phaedo, too. They sit by a stream under a plane tree and a chaste tree, and the rest of the dialogue consists of oration and discussion. Ed. 
The importance of divine inspiration is demonstrated in its connection with the importance of religion, poetry and art, and above all else, love. "argument writer") in Athens during the time of Plato. Phaedrus picks up on Socrates' subtle sarcasm and asks Socrates not to joke.
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